Breaking into Cybersecurity Leadership with Larry Whiteside Jr

Christophe Foulon: 00:00:23

Welcome to another episode of Breaking Into

2

: 00:00:25

Cybersecurity, where we develop the next

generation of cybersecurity leaders.

3

: 00:00:31

Today's guest is Larry Whiteside, but

before he starts, please make sure

4

: 00:00:36

that you share this episode with others

as that is the goal of generating

5

: 00:00:40

the next generation of leaders.

6

: 00:00:42

And for that, we need to share the

message with everyone that's interested

7

: 00:00:46

in becoming a cybersecurity leader.

8

: 00:00:48

Larry, tell us a little

bit about your background.

9

: 00:00:51

Larry Whiteside Jr: Yeah,

so first I'll start.

10

: 00:00:52

Thank I wanna thank you for

the opportunity to sit here

11

: 00:00:55

and have this conversation.

12

: 00:00:56

Second, to the last statement

you said about sharing, I'm a

13

: 00:01:00

huge proponent for community.

14

: 00:01:01

We as

15

: 00:01:02

practitioners and people who ha,

who share faith and share the.

16

: 00:01:06

Knowing desire that this community

needs to be more diverse.

17

: 00:01:10

We have to create and get into communities

of other people who think like us and

18

: 00:01:15

are willing to work down this path.

19

: 00:01:17

So thank you for doing that.

20

: 00:01:19

Now, little about me, which isn't

the most important part of what

21

: 00:01:21

we're gonna talk about today.

22

: 00:01:22

I, Larry Whitehead, Jr.

23

: 00:01:24

I've been in this

industry almost 30 years.

24

: 00:01:26

I'm a former Air Force officer

around information warfare at the

25

: 00:01:29

Pentagon just before getting out

for the last few years before I got

26

: 00:01:34

into private sector in early 2002.

27

: 00:01:36

And since then I've been an executive

cyber leader in a number of different

28

: 00:01:40

comp companies around the globe.

29

: 00:01:41

It's been fun.

30

: 00:01:42

I've had large, very large and small, very

small teams in many different industries.

31

: 00:01:49

A lot of healthcare, some

financial services, some

32

: 00:01:51

energy, oil and gas type stuff.

33

: 00:01:52

And so I've done the consulting side.

34

: 00:01:55

I've done a little bit of everything

in this timeframe which then also

35

: 00:01:59

means I've seen and experienced a lot.

36

: 00:02:01

And this aspect of diversity

for me is a passion.

37

: 00:02:04

Some friends of mine, other cyber leaders.

38

: 00:02:07

And I we co-founded an organization

that was called I-S-C-M-C-P.

39

: 00:02:12

I'm gonna give you the old tongue twister

name, international Consortium of Minority

40

: 00:02:16

Cybersecurity Professionals that we

then properly decided to rename cyber.

41

: 00:02:22

And I like to say the name came from

cybersecurity and diversity, having a

42

: 00:02:27

baby, and, the real mission of diversity

is really to really to get butts in

43

: 00:02:32

seats and really change the dynamics

of the industry to get more di make the

44

: 00:02:36

industry of diversity more diverse, right?

45

: 00:02:39

And specifically targeting right,

underserved communities, LGBTQ plus

46

: 00:02:44

bipo, people of color and the like.

47

: 00:02:46

Christophe Foulon: And that's

definitely an important mission.

48

: 00:02:49

And as, as you've grown along

the way, what are some of the.

49

: 00:02:54

Interesting or probably obvious things

that a company, a team would gain

50

: 00:03:00

from adding diversity to their team.

51

: 00:03:03

Larry Whiteside Jr: Yeah, so I,

I use the word lens a lot and

52

: 00:03:06

I'll explain what that means.

53

: 00:03:07

Every.

54

: 00:03:07

Person on the planet has some

form of a unique vision, right?

55

: 00:03:13

So you can't go to the eye doctor and

get a pair of glasses, a prescription

56

: 00:03:17

for you, and then share them with your

wife or with your children, right?

57

: 00:03:21

And your children are

your children, right?

58

: 00:03:23

They're, you're born from the

same lineages of you, but.

59

: 00:03:26

Even with that, they don't

necessarily see through the same lens.

60

: 00:03:30

That's what I tell people to think

about when they think about diversity.

61

: 00:03:33

We have unfortunately gone down the

path when we talk about diversity of

62

: 00:03:36

always going directly to race and skin

color, and yes, that's a component of

63

: 00:03:41

it, but that's not it in its entirety.

64

: 00:03:43

The purpose for diversity

in cybersecurity is because.

65

: 00:03:46

A, the problem is growing faster

than we can throw things at it.

66

: 00:03:52

So with that, we need to have as

many people in the room with as

67

: 00:03:56

many lenses as possible, thinking of

different ways to solve the problem.

68

: 00:04:00

That's how we attack the problem faster

and better, is by having more ideas of how

69

: 00:04:06

to solve it, and then coming to some level

of understanding of which one of those is

70

: 00:04:11

best that we can then move forward with.

71

: 00:04:13

If you have a room full of people

who all think alike, have a similar

72

: 00:04:17

lens, they're not gonna have the same

lens, but have a similar lens who

73

: 00:04:20

have gone to similar schools, who come

from similar backgrounds, they're all

74

: 00:04:24

going to see things through a common

lens, and you're gonna have what you

75

: 00:04:27

call group think that ends up being

how you attack problem solving well.

76

: 00:04:33

That gives you this very narrow and

myopic view of problem solving in

77

: 00:04:37

your organization, and you tend to

then always be behind the curve.

78

: 00:04:42

And so our goal with diversity is really

to get broader sets of problems brought

79

: 00:04:47

to the table, broader sets of ways to

solve problems brought to the table so

80

: 00:04:51

you can think more broadly about how to

solve said problems that you're facing.

81

: 00:04:55

Christophe Foulon: and you more

specifically, why did you decide to become

82

: 00:04:59

a cybersecurity leader versus staying an

individual contributor in your career?

83

: 00:05:03

Larry Whiteside Jr: Yeah so me being a

leader is just I'm gonna go with and I

84

: 00:05:06

put it out there and everybody who knows

me knows I wear my faith on my sleeve.

85

: 00:05:09

I think that's what God built me to be.

86

: 00:05:11

I was a in the military, right when

you go in, I went in as an officer.

87

: 00:05:15

Going as an in, as an officer, you are

automatically thrust into leadership and.

88

: 00:05:20

Being a junior officer, you have

this balance between individual

89

: 00:05:24

contributor and leadership.

90

: 00:05:25

And so at the base level, you're,

you're a leader, but you're

91

: 00:05:28

also an individual contributor.

92

: 00:05:29

In some ways, I found myself

gravitating more towards being a leader.

93

: 00:05:34

Not that I don't like doing

things, but I like leading people

94

: 00:05:37

and I like being someone who.

95

: 00:05:39

At a granular level, and I

love, I'm a community person.

96

: 00:05:42

I'm big on people leadership,

I'm big on teaching.

97

: 00:05:45

And so I've got eight children, right?

98

: 00:05:48

And two stepchildren an adopted daughter

and five biological children from

99

: 00:05:52

my ex-wife that I'm just about that.

100

: 00:05:54

And so for me.

101

: 00:05:56

When I came out of the military I don't

even think it was a question for me of

102

: 00:06:00

whether I was going to be an individual

contributor or gonna a leadership

103

: 00:06:03

role because I like building teams.

104

: 00:06:06

I like watching other people succeed.

105

: 00:06:08

I like watching people go and then learn

from me to then go build themselves.

106

: 00:06:13

And throughout my career, I've had

opportunities where I've been individual

107

: 00:06:17

contributors been an individual

contributor and even as a ciso I've gone

108

: 00:06:22

into some places that there was nothing.

109

: 00:06:24

They hired me as a ciso and I was

an individual contributor as I

110

: 00:06:27

began building, and then I had to

start hiring and building a team.

111

: 00:06:30

I've just always felt that leadership

was more my calling, right?

112

: 00:06:34

Me being able to lead and influence

others in a direction to do

113

: 00:06:39

something that I think is pivotal.

114

: 00:06:41

Christophe Foulon: And as you think

about leadership, what do you think

115

: 00:06:44

the critical skills for leadership are?

116

: 00:06:46

Larry Whiteside Jr: Yeah,

so really good question.

117

: 00:06:48

Honestly, first one is

listen more than you speak.

118

: 00:06:52

A lot of leaders think that.

119

: 00:06:54

Leading is about telling people what to

do and it's not about telling people what

120

: 00:06:57

to do, it's about listening to others,

understanding who each person is as

121

: 00:07:02

an individual, and then being able to

guide them based on certain principles

122

: 00:07:07

that you have as a leader, right?

123

: 00:07:08

Every leader's got their set of

books or things that guide them,

124

: 00:07:13

principles, whatever that may be.

125

: 00:07:15

But a lot of them tend to

talk more than they listen.

126

: 00:07:17

I say God gave us two ears

and one mouth for a reason.

127

: 00:07:20

And so with that, great leaders

have a great ability to listen to

128

: 00:07:25

people around them and take that.

129

: 00:07:28

And whether it's taking

feedback or just taking input.

130

: 00:07:32

From them based on who they are,

what they want to be how they operate

131

: 00:07:36

well, and being able to transition

and turn that into helping them be

132

: 00:07:40

the best person that they can be.

133

: 00:07:42

Christophe Foulon: Wow

that's definitely true.

134

: 00:07:43

I've been hearing that phrase

more and more two ears in one

135

: 00:07:47

mouth, and it's definitely true.

136

: 00:07:49

Let's dive into some of the common

competencies that I've seen over and over.

137

: 00:07:55

I.

138

: 00:07:55

And see your thoughts on them.

139

: 00:07:57

With a scale of one to five, how do you

rate your comfort level with delegation,

140

: 00:08:03

and why is it such a critical skill?

141

: 00:08:05

Larry Whiteside Jr: Yeah, so

I'm, I'll tell you where I was.

142

: 00:08:08

I used to be 10 years ago, 10 years ago,

I had the mindset that nobody's gonna do

143

: 00:08:13

it better than me, so I'll just do it.

144

: 00:08:15

I would just do it.

145

: 00:08:16

I would tell, my leaders, Hey, here's

some of the things I need, and then

146

: 00:08:20

I would go create the presentation.

147

: 00:08:22

I would tell the leaders,

Hey, I need these things.

148

: 00:08:24

And then I would go do some of the

things that I could have delegated.

149

: 00:08:27

Delegating is difficult.

150

: 00:08:29

Right now I'm at a five, or I'll say

I'll, I'm at a four because I don't

151

: 00:08:33

think there's such as perfection.

152

: 00:08:35

I'm at a, I realize delegation.

153

: 00:08:37

A lot to delegation is you being

comfortable with yourself, right?

154

: 00:08:41

Because it has zero to do with the

other people most of the time that you

155

: 00:08:47

don't trust them because if you didn't

trust them, you wouldn't hire them.

156

: 00:08:49

They wouldn't be in the roles they're in.

157

: 00:08:51

It's that you feel more

comfortable getting it done

158

: 00:08:55

yourself versus teaching them.

159

: 00:08:56

And I learned that through my career that

the day I step into a role is the day

160

: 00:09:02

that I need to be succession planning.

161

: 00:09:04

So when I accept my role as an executive

in whatever organization, right?

162

: 00:09:10

I need to be thinking about

what's my succession plan?

163

: 00:09:12

Who am I building up to

be able to take my role?

164

: 00:09:16

I should not be creating my role

in a way that it is one that I,

165

: 00:09:20

if I go away, it can't be done.

166

: 00:09:22

But a lot of us felt have over the

years, felt job security in doing that.

167

: 00:09:28

And.

168

: 00:09:28

It sometimes can turn around

and bite you in the butt.

169

: 00:09:30

I thank God it never bitten me, but

I've seen others where it has and

170

: 00:09:36

through a lot of reading, through

a lot of self-reflection I came

171

: 00:09:39

to the point of recognizing my own

flaws and my ability to delegate.

172

: 00:09:42

So I think it's crucially important.

173

: 00:09:45

To understand that, and if you are

not someone who likes to delegate, you

174

: 00:09:48

need to identify why, because it's a

critical part, because it builds trust

175

: 00:09:52

with your team, and it also helps them

build the capability and the muscles

176

: 00:09:56

that they need to really do their

jobs better and understand yours.

177

: 00:10:00

Christophe Foulon: And

while not dissimilar, let's

178

: 00:10:02

talk about collaboration.

179

: 00:10:04

How do you rate yourself on the

scale of one to five, and why

180

: 00:10:08

is it such a ? Critical skill.

181

: 00:10:09

Larry Whiteside Jr: Yeah

so collaboration is huge.

182

: 00:10:11

I'm a five on collaboration simply

for the fact that I like everybody

183

: 00:10:16

bringing to the table, where I talked

about community in the beginning,

184

: 00:10:18

I'm a huge community person.

185

: 00:10:20

I'm a huge person about ensuring that

everybody's coming to the table so that.

186

: 00:10:25

We don't get down a path and

then somebody's raising a hand

187

: 00:10:28

feeling like that they did

not, they weren't a part of it.

188

: 00:10:30

And this really goes to the

crux of cybersecurity, right?

189

: 00:10:32

We were in a bubble for a long time.

190

: 00:10:36

And if you were in a organization

that was developing things development

191

: 00:10:39

was off doing their own thing.

192

: 00:10:40

And then after the fact, we got to

watch and we were raising our hand like,

193

: 00:10:43

Hey, We were never part of that, right?

194

: 00:10:45

CISOs never being brought

to the board, right?

195

: 00:10:49

In my early days, it was a long

time before I got the board right,

196

: 00:10:53

but the business going down this

path, you're like, Hey, why wasn't

197

: 00:10:56

I part of that conversation?

198

: 00:10:57

And.

199

: 00:10:58

For me, I, the reason I know how important

Collaborat collaboration is because I've

200

: 00:11:03

been on the other side of not being part

of it, and so I recognize the value of

201

: 00:11:08

it and how if everybody doesn't feel

like they have a voice and are part of

202

: 00:11:13

helping make the decision of whether

you're gonna turn right or turn left as

203

: 00:11:16

you go down this road, the impact to both

the project or initiative as well as the

204

: 00:11:22

impact on the individual who's being left.

205

: 00:11:24

Christophe Foulon: And while we di dived

into a component of this, how do you rate

206

: 00:11:29

yourself for the skill of communication

and why is it such a critical skill?

207

: 00:11:33

Larry Whiteside Jr: Yeah, communication.

208

: 00:11:34

Some people say I'm a

little too talkative.

209

: 00:11:37

but I'm big on communication.

210

: 00:11:39

I will say timeliness is

sometimes a thing but just the

211

: 00:11:43

overall aspect of communication.

212

: 00:11:45

People will tell you all the time I

say this, I love to run my mouth, so

213

: 00:11:49

I don't have a problem communicating.

214

: 00:11:50

I.

215

: 00:11:51

But I think communication is critical

because that's how you keep both

216

: 00:11:55

your team and your leadership

informed of what you are doing,

217

: 00:11:59

what's going on, what's happening.

218

: 00:12:01

If you don't communicate and you sit

again in our bubble of cybersecurity,

219

: 00:12:05

which happens from time to time.

220

: 00:12:07

You tend to be left out of other things,

and I think that communication, proper

221

: 00:12:12

communication ensures that you are

part of the other conversations, right?

222

: 00:12:16

So I'll give you an example If as

a cyber leader you are not doing

223

: 00:12:20

regular touch bases with your peers

across your organization, right?

224

: 00:12:26

You then don't get read into

the other things that they are

225

: 00:12:30

doing, the other things that they

are getting pulled into, right?

226

: 00:12:33

Inside of your organization is by having

regular conversations with your peers,

227

: 00:12:38

those conversations you have with your

peers, when you begin to dissect things,

228

: 00:12:42

share with them what you are doing,

and ask them and listen to the things

229

: 00:12:46

that they're doing, you'll start to see

some synergy across that, and they'll

230

: 00:12:51

start to understand, here are some

areas that I need to bring security in.

231

: 00:12:55

So for me, communication is huge.

232

: 00:12:57

Christophe Foulon: Now an interesting one.

233

: 00:12:58

Why would you consider influence such

a critical skill for cybersecurity?

234

: 00:13:02

Larry Whiteside Jr: Yeah honestly,

this one is simple for me.

235

: 00:13:05

Influence and security is so

important because you're asking

236

: 00:13:09

people to do things hard, right?

237

: 00:13:11

Security is the one thing

across a business ecosystem

238

: 00:13:15

that can slow everything down.

239

: 00:13:18

And for organizations, right?

240

: 00:13:20

Whether it's tech, whether it's,

certain business units or whatever,

241

: 00:13:24

they want to move quickly.

242

: 00:13:25

They want to move.

243

: 00:13:26

So security, because security has yet to

learn to move at the speed of business.

244

: 00:13:31

When we get pulled in or when we

in inject ourselves or integrate

245

: 00:13:35

ourselves, we tend to slow things

down because for the most part.

246

: 00:13:40

Most cyber leaders are not at the

beginning of the conversation.

247

: 00:13:43

They get brought in some phase later

and they become a checkbox that must

248

: 00:13:49

be checked before something moves on.

249

: 00:13:51

And because they weren't integrated

from the beginning, now this is a

250

: 00:13:54

blocker, this is a stopping point.

251

: 00:13:55

This is a right.

252

: 00:13:56

So you have to be an influencer there.

253

: 00:13:58

But then even if you are brought in at

the beginning of the conversation, you're

254

: 00:14:02

going to make things more difficult.

255

: 00:14:04

You're gonna make things more costly.

256

: 00:14:06

You, again, you're going to make things

move at a pace slower than anticipated

257

: 00:14:10

to get to the end goal, and you have

to help them understand the risk

258

: 00:14:15

that you're helping mitigate, right?

259

: 00:14:17

Assert along that path of whatever that

path is that they're going down towards

260

: 00:14:21

whatever that particular business unit is.

261

: 00:14:23

So with that, being able to influence

decisions, being able to help

262

: 00:14:27

people understand and being able

to communicate in the language of

263

: 00:14:32

the person you're across the table

from becomes ever more critical.

264

: 00:14:36

Christophe Foulon: Now, I know

you're really good at this one.

265

: 00:14:38

But how would you consider

networking with people as a critical

266

: 00:14:43

skill for cybersecurity and why?

267

: 00:14:45

Larry Whiteside Jr: Yeah so that

one again I think I'm a five.

268

: 00:14:48

And I think I'm a five in this one.

269

: 00:14:50

I tell people this all the time.

270

: 00:14:51

I've learned more from the community

that I engage with, the people that

271

: 00:14:57

I network with, the people that I

talk to on a regular basis, more than

272

: 00:15:00

any training I've ever taken, right?

273

: 00:15:02

Because yes, training is going

to get me some aspect of.

274

: 00:15:06

Knowledge related to a specific

technical discipline or thing, but my.

275

: 00:15:12

Get me knowledgeable about things

that I probably wouldn't have

276

: 00:15:16

otherwise known about until it

impacted me directly, impacted my

277

: 00:15:20

organization, directly impacted

one of my staffers directly, right?

278

: 00:15:23

Those types of things.

279

: 00:15:24

So learning from the community is

only happens if you engage in network.

280

: 00:15:28

And so for me, that's a huge

part of my world is continuing

281

: 00:15:33

to have conversations with.

282

: 00:15:34

Pretty much everyone on a pretty regular

basis about things that are happening,

283

: 00:15:39

asking questions, seeking to understand.

284

: 00:15:42

It's, the whole aspect of seeking

to understand is a lost art.

285

: 00:15:45

So many people go in with an agenda

when they want to, when they want

286

: 00:15:49

to know something or when they start

a dialogue about something versus

287

: 00:15:53

seeking to understand, because I've

got people who I've got opposing views

288

: 00:15:58

with, who I'm great friends with.

289

: 00:15:59

And we never argue about it.

290

: 00:16:01

We never right?

291

: 00:16:02

We are, even though we may be on

polar opposites as it relates to

292

: 00:16:06

certain topics, because my goal is

always to seek to understand why

293

: 00:16:10

they feel, think or believe that way.

294

: 00:16:12

It's not in a way that I then

utilize against them to tear it down.

295

: 00:16:16

I just wanna know, and for me it's about,

it's that knowledge that I gain when

296

: 00:16:20

networking and communicating with people.

297

: 00:16:22

And in the cyber industry it's

even more so because, information

298

: 00:16:26

sharing is such a challenge in cyber.

299

: 00:16:27

We've talked about information sharing.

300

: 00:16:29

There have been tons and tons of

tools that have been developed to try

301

: 00:16:32

and facilitate information sharing.

302

: 00:16:34

Private to public to private

company to company and all

303

: 00:16:37

this, and we can't get it right.

304

: 00:16:38

We just, we continue to hit

these barriers of, legal and

305

: 00:16:42

regulatory and blah, blah, blah.

306

: 00:16:43

All these things that

have stopped us, right?

307

: 00:16:45

Guess what?

308

: 00:16:45

It can happen person to person.

309

: 00:16:47

I've gotten more private CISO groups

either in Slack or in Signal or

310

: 00:16:52

WhatsApp or whatever, where we are

sharing things that we're dealing with.

311

: 00:16:56

In our organizations or as a leader

or with staff or with something that

312

: 00:17:02

I hear from other people, I'm like,

oh, I've never dealt with that.

313

: 00:17:05

Or they're coming up with something

that I've dealt with before where I

314

: 00:17:08

can say, oh yes, I dealt with that.

315

: 00:17:09

This is how I did it.

316

: 00:17:10

This is what we did.

317

: 00:17:11

This is what happened.

318

: 00:17:12

Here were the outcomes.

319

: 00:17:13

So for me, that is absolutely

critical and probably one of the most

320

: 00:17:17

fun things I get to do every day.

321

: 00:17:19

Christophe Foulon: What advice would you

give to future cybersecurity leaders?

322

: 00:17:22

I.

323

: 00:17:22

Larry Whiteside Jr: Yeah.

324

: 00:17:23

Find your community, find build it,

be open and listen more than you talk.

325

: 00:17:28

And I, let me start this way.

326

: 00:17:30

I'm gonna start with,

listen more than you talk.

327

: 00:17:32

A lot of people reach a certain

pedestal, so to speak and feel that,

328

: 00:17:36

okay, I've now achieved something.

329

: 00:17:37

Everybody listen to me.

330

: 00:17:39

And the reality is, the higher

you climb in your career,

331

: 00:17:43

the more you need to listen.

332

: 00:17:45

Because.

333

: 00:17:45

There are new techniques, there

are new threats, there are new,

334

: 00:17:48

everything coming out on a daily basis.

335

: 00:17:50

The people who are really seeing,

understanding and getting to

336

: 00:17:54

know what the hell that is are

the people on the front lines.

337

: 00:17:56

That is these, the people in their

one to seven years right, of cyber

338

: 00:18:00

and tech are dealing with all the new

things that, I call myself a dinosaur

339

: 00:18:05

at this stage, but that we we fathom.

340

: 00:18:08

We started in this industry.

341

: 00:18:10

And so with that, it's important

for us to listen, right?

342

: 00:18:14

Listen to a lot of the things coming

from all of these other areas versus

343

: 00:18:19

just talking about how great we

are or talking about all the things

344

: 00:18:22

we're doing or talking about, right?

345

: 00:18:24

It's that listening and

then engaging, right?

346

: 00:18:27

As you listen, find the things

that you are passionate about

347

: 00:18:30

that align to you and engage.

348

: 00:18:32

But then the other thing

is just be genuine.

349

: 00:18:35

People are gonna be able to read If you

aren't who you portray yourself to be.

350

: 00:18:40

If you get online and you try and paint

a certain picture about yourself, the

351

: 00:18:44

moment someone meets you, they're gonna be

able to tell if that's truly you or not.

352

: 00:18:49

And you look at a lot of celebrities

that, that portray a certain image

353

: 00:18:53

and then they get out in the real

world and they get met and they are

354

: 00:18:56

this, completely walled off person

that doesn't wanna, they're like, oh.

355

: 00:19:01

I thought this person, and so that,

that would happen in our industry.

356

: 00:19:04

And there are many people who have

been put up on the wall of sheep

357

: 00:19:09

or charlatans out at Black Hat.

358

: 00:19:11

Just be genuine, right?

359

: 00:19:13

Both online and in person and

be who you are and it's okay.

360

: 00:19:16

If you're a curmudgeon, own it.

361

: 00:19:18

I know a couple of people who are

curmudgeons and I love them dearly.

362

: 00:19:22

And I call them that to their face.

363

: 00:19:23

I don't just say it behind their back.

364

: 00:19:25

I call them that to their

face on a regular basis.

365

: 00:19:27

And I still love them and I dialogue

with them all the time, right?

366

: 00:19:30

But I know who they are.

367

: 00:19:32

And so for me, I appreciate it

because who they are is who they

368

: 00:19:36

are and they don't try and hide it.

369

: 00:19:37

They don't try and sugarcoat it.

370

: 00:19:39

Don't try gloss.

371

: 00:19:40

That's who appreciate.

372

: 00:19:42

Christophe Foulon: I'd say.

373

: 00:19:42

Jeff Mann and Jack Daniels

are two well-known Curmudgeons

374

: 00:19:46

Larry Whiteside Jr: add Ira Wink Winkler

375

: 00:19:48

Yes.

376

: 00:19:48

Yes, that's true.

377

: 00:19:49

IRA's a good friend of mine.

378

: 00:19:50

He's

379

: 00:19:51

larry-whiteside-jr_1_10-23-2023_160449:

another one.

380

: 00:19:51

Christophe Foulon: Perfect.

381

: 00:19:52

One more topic since I know this

is what you're passionate about.

382

: 00:19:56

Let's talk a little bit more

about diversity, inclusion and

383

: 00:20:01

equity and kind of dive into what

each of those mean and how we can

384

: 00:20:07

enable those in the organization.

385

: 00:20:09

Larry Whiteside Jr: Yeah so

diversity is pretty simple.

386

: 00:20:11

We talked about that in the beginning, is.

387

: 00:20:13

Being able to find a way to bring people

into your organization that, that see

388

: 00:20:18

through different lenses than you.

389

: 00:20:20

So diversity is not just about skin

color, but I'll start with saying

390

: 00:20:23

diversity is not just a number.

391

: 00:20:25

It's not just about a

achieving a percentage.

392

: 00:20:28

Oh, I've got a certain number of

underrepresented communities and

393

: 00:20:31

women in, in our organization.

394

: 00:20:33

No.

395

: 00:20:33

So diversity is about

finding those people.

396

: 00:20:36

D.

397

: 00:20:36

Without equity and

inclusion, then you failed.

398

: 00:20:39

Because equity is about making

them feel, and equity and

399

: 00:20:43

inclusion, I think go together.

400

: 00:20:44

Where equity is are they being

paid on scale with their peers?

401

: 00:20:49

You can't bring this diverse talent

in, but keep them at a 20% lower clip.

402

: 00:20:54

Others in similar roles, right?

403

: 00:20:56

So that's one, that's the equity pieces.

404

: 00:20:58

Making sure that these backend components

of how we create these roles tier

405

: 00:21:04

these roles and pay these roles, that

is equitable across the organization

406

: 00:21:09

and across these roles as well.

407

: 00:21:11

But this inclusion piece is huge because.

408

: 00:21:13

If you say, okay, 30% of

my organization is diverse.

409

: 00:21:17

Great.

410

: 00:21:18

And this could be diversity of thought,

diversity of background diversity, right?

411

: 00:21:22

30%.

412

: 00:21:23

All right, great.

413

: 00:21:24

But now are they included?

414

: 00:21:27

Are they do, are they being made

to feel like the ideas they come up

415

: 00:21:32

with are being actually considered?

416

: 00:21:35

Are they being invited to the meetings?

417

: 00:21:37

Are they having, are they being

put in places where they feel

418

: 00:21:40

safe enough to openly share?

419

: 00:21:43

Because I've seen situations, or I should

say, I've been told about situations from

420

: 00:21:48

diverse people where yes, they were hired

to fit all the diversity check boxes.

421

: 00:21:55

Got into an organization and they

basically felt like they were put in

422

: 00:21:58

the office in the Broom closet office.

423

: 00:22:00

The guy on the movie, the office.

424

: 00:22:02

Where, he was down there, there

was a mop and a bucket in there.

425

: 00:22:05

And that's like that's what

they felt like they were, or

426

: 00:22:08

they got invited to the meeting.

427

: 00:22:10

But anytime they spoke

up, they got talked over.

428

: 00:22:13

No idea that they ever gave was

actually ever validly discussed.

429

: 00:22:18

So this whole component of inclusion

is wildly important because and

430

: 00:22:23

unfortunate reality today is women

are leaving the cybersecurity industry

431

: 00:22:28

faster than any other demographic.

432

: 00:22:30

And it's because there's a huge

lack of inclusion on the operational

433

: 00:22:35

side of cybersecurity, right?

434

: 00:22:37

In sales, women are growing in

sales, so sales and cybersecurity is

435

: 00:22:41

growing, but on the operational side.

436

: 00:22:43

Of cybersecurity, the practitioner

side, women are leaving in droves.

437

: 00:22:48

And it's because there's lack of

inclusion that they're, that they

438

: 00:22:53

feel they're being given as it relates

to their ideas and their thoughts.

439

: 00:22:57

And so with that.

440

: 00:22:58

That piece right there.

441

: 00:22:59

You can be as diverse as you

wanna be, but if you fall into

442

: 00:23:03

group, think where you've got 30%.

443

: 00:23:06

So there are 10, 10 people in the

room and three of them are diverse,

444

: 00:23:09

but those three are feel made to feel

small and their ideas are not never

445

: 00:23:14

heard, and they never feel like they

are part of the conversation because

446

: 00:23:18

the other seven, talk over them, talk

around them, talk through them, right?

447

: 00:23:22

The leader of that

organization is failing them.

448

: 00:23:26

Whoever that executive

leader is failing me.

449

: 00:23:28

I've been in these situations where

I have had to shut people up and

450

: 00:23:33

shut people down and say, Hey,

such and such just had an idea.

451

: 00:23:38

Say that again.

452

: 00:23:39

Let's talk about that.

453

: 00:23:40

Let's dig into that a little

bit because here's the reality.

454

: 00:23:43

It's not that diverse.

455

: 00:23:44

People feel that their ideas should

be the one that's the best one.

456

: 00:23:49

If they make a statement

or come up with an idea.

457

: 00:23:52

You walk through it and either

validate it or devalidate it against

458

: 00:23:56

everything else, then they at

least feel like they were heard.

459

: 00:24:00

But to not hear it at all, not go through

the steps of validating or invalidating it

460

: 00:24:05

versus all the other ones, is where most

organizations fall and they, fail, and

461

: 00:24:10

they fail regularly, and it's really sad.

462

: 00:24:13

Christophe Foulon: And

just to end the . Doubt.

463

: 00:24:15

Do you wanna tell people

what your shirt means?

464

: 00:24:17

Larry Whiteside Jr: Yeah so for hunger

hunger in our country is a problem, right?

465

: 00:24:21

We're one of the richest

nations in the world.

466

: 00:24:23

And our company reg scale I'm

very fortunate that we've got

467

: 00:24:27

great great leadership team at

Reg Scale and during our CKO.

468

: 00:24:32

This year we did it in DC and we went

and volunteered at a food shelter in

469

: 00:24:37

the DC area and we packaged foods and

packaged goods for the DC's community

470

: 00:24:43

that they basically take out to schools.

471

: 00:24:45

They take out to, homeless

shelters and the like.

472

: 00:24:47

And so it was a great day

of community service for us.

473

: 00:24:51

But it also, reminded me of the

narrative that there are so many people

474

: 00:24:55

in the United States that go hungry.

475

: 00:24:57

I lived in a community in Michigan

where it could be Sub-Zero

476

: 00:25:02

temperature, and two feet of snow.

477

: 00:25:04

And they would not close schools

because such a large percentage of the

478

: 00:25:07

students and schools, that was the only

meal that they were having each day.

479

: 00:25:11

So fork hunger is a statement

by an organization out dc it's.

480

: 00:25:16

As specifically, and so I bought this.

481

: 00:25:18

I wear this shirt a lot just because

I think it makes a statement.

482

: 00:25:21

It's funny, but it's actually talking

about a real problem and not that,

483

: 00:25:25

hunger is a huge mission of mine on

top of diversity and everything else,

484

: 00:25:28

but I'm just a humanitarian and I

truly believe I am, I'm a believer in

485

: 00:25:32

people and I'm always trying to find

a way to utilize whatever platform I

486

: 00:25:38

have to send a message that there are.

487

: 00:25:41

To be better humans.

488

: 00:25:42

Humans.

489

: 00:25:42

And so find something, find anything.

490

: 00:25:45

To, to just, because at the end of

the day, I can tell you and my kids

491

: 00:25:49

can tell you, we do something as

simple as make homeless bags, right?

492

: 00:25:53

And we buy dollar goods, put

them into little paper bags,

493

: 00:25:57

and we keep them in the car.

494

: 00:25:59

And when we are driving and we

come to a stoplight and there's

495

: 00:26:02

somebody, with a sign or whatever,

we'll give them homeless bags and

496

: 00:26:04

it's got, some non-perishable foods.

497

: 00:26:06

It's got some things that will allow

them to clean themselves and soap and

498

: 00:26:09

toothbrush and little things, but.

499

: 00:26:13

The joy that my nine and 11 year old,

the bottom of my kids the last two in the

500

: 00:26:18

house that they get out of that is, is

worth all the money in the world, right?

501

: 00:26:23

And so if you find something, find

whatever your thing is, do something.

502

: 00:26:28

It really takes.

503

: 00:26:29

Each individual saying, I'm going to

step up to do something rather than

504

: 00:26:34

just be in my own world because we are

all citizens of this world together.

505

: 00:26:39

And so I think everybody and even

with this aspect of DI diversity,

506

: 00:26:43

I say this statement a lot and

it's interesting how many people

507

: 00:26:47

hadn't thought of it until I say it.

508

: 00:26:49

There's not been a single.

509

: 00:26:51

Made in the history of the

world that happened when it

510

: 00:26:54

was only the impacted community

standing up to complain about it.

511

: 00:26:58

Women's rights, right?

512

: 00:27:00

Affirmative action, right?

513

: 00:27:01

There's nothing if you think about that.

514

: 00:27:04

So find whatever your thing is and

if you think it's an injustice, if

515

: 00:27:08

you think it's wrong, stand up and be

part of helping to make that change.

516

: 00:27:11

Christophe Foulon: And I would say

just on find that thing and work

517

: 00:27:15

on it, that's a transferable skill.

518

: 00:27:18

That applies everywhere.

519

: 00:27:21

Work home, where wherever you

are, it applies everywhere.

520

: 00:27:26

So o

521

: 00:27:27

that, thank you Larry for joining us.

522

: 00:27:30

And everyone, thank you for sharing

with all the future cybersecurity

523

: 00:27:34

leaders out there, and let's make

a positive impact on this world.