Breaking into Cybersecurity - Raphael Nicolich

Christophe Foulon: 00:00:41

Welcome to another episode of Breaking Into Cybersecurity,

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where we talk to individuals that have

broken into the field so that they

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could share their tips, tricks, and

suggestions for others breaking into

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the field Today we have Raphael, Nico,

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. First, before we jump right in, let's

put a call out that if you enjoyed

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this episode after viewing, please

do share it with all your friends and

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family, because we do need to have

that diverse perspective of individuals

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coming from different backgrounds

and different varieties into the

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cybersecurity field so that we can

tackle the problems from tomorrow.

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Rafael tell us a little bit about where

you were before you were in cybersecurity.

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Raphael Nicolich: Sure.

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First of all thank you so

much for inviting me here.

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I'm honored.

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I Came to know about your podcast late

: 2021

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invited to be here and I've never thought

that one day I'll be the guest talking

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how I broke into cybersecurity mode.

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Yeah.

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So let me just go ahead and start it.

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Hi everyone.

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I'm Rafael Nicoli.

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I was born and raised in Rio Janee,

Brazil, where I graduated from law school.

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After getting my Juris doctorate degree,

I continued studying hard and I was able

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to join the Rio Jane state police as a

e detective That was made mid: 2012

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hoWever during my time in the police

academy, I learned about the police

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detectives working as an intelligence

analyst in the police departments

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and what they do there and such.

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So my plans changed.

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So after the police academy graduation

in early: 2013

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work in the police departments as an

intelligence analyst, helping other police

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detectives with their investigations.

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And I've moved a lot from

different police departments.

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And during the almost six years I

had been that position before moving

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to the US at the beginning, Of 2019.

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Let's see.

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yeAh, so what brought me here to

the US almost five years ago, Was

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a PhD opportunity for my wife.

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She had reached to an anniversary

university professor here in the US

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whom she met at a conference back

in Brazil, and they had a spot for

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international students in their lab.

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And since it was a massive

opportunity for her career and was

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her dream, we decided to move here.

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But but the thing was back in Brazil,

and as I said in the beginning,

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I have a juris doctor degree.

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I can't really, validate that in the

us take the bar exam and be a lawyer.

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If I wanted to adventure

myself on that path and.

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What about law enforcement?

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Someone might ask.

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I discovered back then that here in the

US, regardless of scope or level, state

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city detectives or police officers, police

officer, it requires at lease green card.

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sOmething I still need to get,

I thought, so what should I do?

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Career wise, I thought okay,

it, I really enjoy computers.

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I am good at it.

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I've always, I.

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Built my desktop computers,

but what exactly in it realm?

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So at that time I was between

IT support and web development.

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And during this phase, thinking about

the pros and cons between them, I

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saw an advertisement for the Google

IT support certificate program.

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And I found that interesting

and I jumped right into it.

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And course enough the last module of

that program talk about cybersecurity.

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Christophe Foulon: Before we jump in

there let me try to dissect a little bit.

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When you were in Brazil, you

were, it sounds like you were part

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of the police department as an

intelligence analyst for many years.

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What were some of the, now that you're

looking back, transferrable skills

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from being an intelligence analyst to

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To cybersecurity that you are able to

leverage and transfer from your past

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experience to your current experience.

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Raphael Nicolich: Sure.

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I guess was the part That I had to,

as an intelligence analyst, I had

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to gather and triage and correlate

data, from multiple sources.

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We had access.

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We also use a lot of old syn as well.

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But we also had, close sources as well.

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I'm presenting all my findings in

intelligence reports or, spreadsheets

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or dashboards for My stakeholders should

take preventative or remediate actions.

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All my stakeholders, law enforcement

will be, my, the commissioners or,

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senior police detectives and such.

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If you think about that, it, it's

really relates to cybersecurity,

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especially soc analyst as well.

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And also, and on top of that also the

mentality of, I will have to be able to

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articulate my findings really well for

people to understand what I was able

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to gather, and correlate all that data

to, to make sense for their decisions.

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So that's another Aspect

of was really important.

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For, to help me with with

cybersecurity as well.

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So I had a lot of experience with

that because sometimes I was in a

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room that, not everyone was from,

actually from law enforcement.

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So I had people, in room

like the mayor of the city.

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And I had to explain over

there I was super nervous.

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I was over there and, this high level,

politician over there and, but, but yeah.

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So this is, this has helped you a lot.

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That helped me a lot with with

the cybersecurity, so far.

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Christophe Foulon: And a, as you finished

up the Google training certificate,

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had you started looking for

jobs before then, or you want

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to finish the training first?

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What was your approach in job hunting?

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Raphael Nicolich: My approach was I was

searching to, okay, what it takes to

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be, a saw analyst because, before that

I had no idea what cybersecurity was.

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I searched about the roles,

what they do and such.

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And when I learned about the soc

part, that was, that, that's it.

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That's totally it, right?

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So I was still to describe my new

career, where should I start, and.

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So I've started to, check what

what was the requirements,

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certification, certifications and such.

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What what was the, what I need?

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What was the fundamental knowledge?

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And then I just go, yeah, I have to

understand, what what is the internet?

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Because before like a tool before

I had a basic level of it, so

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I had to learn everything about

network, about networks and such.

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So that's why, that's where I

discovered the com TIA certifications

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and I did a lot of research.

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So I started with a network Plus,

and after I got, I, so after I got

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the network, plus I was our thought

was like enough to start applying,

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but I noticed that no, okay.

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Security Plus is is gonna give me the

days, level that was my understanding

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back at the time, so I then after

I got the security plus that I

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started to applying for positions,

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Christophe Foulon: Okay so right at

this point in time in, in your search

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you have, a just doctrine from Brazil.

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You have a Google IT

support certification.

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You have your network plus,

and now you're security plus.

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Raphael Nicolich: Correct.

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Christophe Foulon: Okay.

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How did you go about you search?

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Were you looking at SOC analyst role or

were you looking at more senior roles?

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What were you looking at?

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Raphael Nicolich: I was

exclusively looking for entry

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level, cybersecurity roles.

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And from what I could tell,

saw analyst was the one I.

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At least for me, because you would have

the both of the of the words, like in,

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in this regard of it's entry level.

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And I also I really found it was, it

had everything with me what what I've

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seen before in law enforcement, right?

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So it was perfect for me.

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It was the perfect role.

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Yeah.

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And.

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Reflecting on the initial months of, my

journey when I started, to apply to soc

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analyst position after I thought that I

checked all the boxes, for what I believe

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to be enough to get a, an entry law,

an entry level job in cybersecurity.

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I must admit that they were,

disheartening, receiving rejection

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after rejection it was not on the only

disappointment about, but it also deeply

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discouraging because especially when

I could even secure an interview, and

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Christophe Foulon: Let's

let's dig into there.

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So you've, you're applying

for lots of roles on average.

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How many roles and how are you

going out about applying for them?

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Raphael Nicolich: The thing is I put on

my on my, on medium that I was 60 plus.

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But the thing is after at 60 plus, after,

two years of, applying for positions

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without even getting an interview.

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But I checked that I also applied

for a lot of position through

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LinkedIn and some of a lot of those

LinkedIn applications that I did.

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I didn't receive any email from that.

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So all my accounting was based on

the emails that I receive, that

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those initial emails that say, oh,

we received your application and

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we soon reach out to you or something.

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With my new coding is

80 plus, Of rejections.

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Christophe Foulon: It sounds like

a lot of these were just through

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applicant tracking systems.

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Is that right?

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To assume?

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Raphael Nicolich: YEah.

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Christophe Foulon: Did you use

networking or reaching out to people

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as part of your strategy at the time?

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Raphael Nicolich: Yes.

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But I was connecting to, to a lot of

people, that it was in the InfoSec

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realm and, but I never, just reach out

to someone and, say, Hey, I'm working

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for a job on anything like that.

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I was more like trying to make meaningful

connections and then ask them for, for

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any piece of advice, something like that.

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And.

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And trying to understand where,

I should focus on in order for me

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to, to get a, to get an interview,

some, no stuff like that.

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And the thing is, another thing that

I've that I remember, I also reach

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out to local university professors as

well and ask them for a internship.

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And I remember I reached out at least four

or five university professors that was

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involved with something related with the

InfoSec just to get, my feet wet and such.

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And I was actually

asked, I was actually, I.

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Asking for, internship, not

even internship, I'm sorry.

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For volunteer, I was volunteering

myself to do something, for free.

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I just wanted to be part of something

to have something to put on my resume.

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And from those five, I only

heard back from Chu and one

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of them asked for my resume.

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I sent my resume to them

and I never heard back.

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And I was like, okay, so

my resume is that bad.

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That's why the , this person's

not reaching back to me.

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So it was, I, it was really disappointing,

but and throughout the time I

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was thinking okay, so what should

I do to stand out from the crowd?

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Christophe Foulon: Let's let,

lemme ask you a question there.

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So you brought up the question

that the statement was my resume.

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That bad?

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Did have anyone that was helping?

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Look at your resume or make

evaluations to your resume

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Raphael Nicolich: No.

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That was one of my mistakes.

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Christophe Foulon: or tweaking

your resume for the roles.

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Raphael Nicolich: No, I was like

just checking videos and seeing

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people, posting on LinkedIn and

saying, oh, your resume should look

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like this and should like that.

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And such people with with knowledge

and such, with really with an

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extensive experience on that.

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But I, I never approach someone and

ask them to look at my resume and such.

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And I feel like this is one of the

mistakes I made during my path, that I

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should also, should reach out to someone

and have them to take a look on my resume.

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But but yeah, that was one of

the mistakes that I made early

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them,

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my

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Christophe Foulon: eventually then

your journey started to turn around.

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How did you get that interview

for the role, your first role?

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Raphael Nicolich: So the turning

point for me wa, was when I started

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a medium page where I began to share

some CDF walkthroughs and whatnot.

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And, I.

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Crazy enough, not even a month,

and a couple of articles, I

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finally got my chance finally

interview my first one oh my God.

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And honestly, I was feeling super

confident because I had, so much

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time to prep for that moment that

when I finally got the chance, of

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course I was a little bit nervous.

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But I was feeling good, and I

used a lot of resources and one of

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them was I got right here with me.

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Your book.

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And other resources as well,

so how to answer, what are the

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most commonly questions asked?

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The response, how, the, also

the, also your book also covers,

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behavior questions and such.

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And I had a lot of time right to

Prepare myself for this and yeah,

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and I did interview and when I

finally got that call, Chris, and,

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let me ask for your forgiveness

because I cannot express enough.

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The magnitude of feelings on that

particular day and know I simply

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couldn't believe, but at the same

time, I knew for sure that I freaking

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deserve it, so it was amazing.

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Christophe Foulon: That's great.

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So it sounds like by

creating a brand for yourself

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in your Medium article and starting

to go through the capture the flag

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challenges by showing that you

understood technically what's happening

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versus just saying it on your resume.

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You started to notice a

difference and people started

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to pay attention to you, right?

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Raphael Nicolich: Exactly.

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Yeah, 100%.

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Because you gotta show your work, right?

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In landscape, field with

numerous opportunities.

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And also candidate, I started

to ask myself, how can I

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distinguish, from the crowd?

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And this, I thought about a YouTube

channel and such, but I'm not

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I'm more introspective person.

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should say it.

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So I thought, okay, so maybe I.

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Posting something online like a blog

or something that I can show my work to

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my, to po potential employers, that I

understand the concept and I know how

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to get, dig into, findings and such.

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Maybe that's gonna put it, put

me on a better, perspective,

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from the other candidates.

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Christophe Foulon: So

you got your first role.

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Congratulations.

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What are some of the things that

you're now doing to keep up?

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Because we know getting the first

role is just the first step in.

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Now you have to keep the

role and you have to advance.

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What are some of the things

that you're doing to keep up

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and to advance your career?

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Raphael Nicolich: So as of now,

I'm focusing solely on my work,

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on my, understanding and working,

studying the platforms that I use,

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to do my job as a security analyst.

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So I'm focusing on that right now.

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But also at the same time,

continuing, checking the news.

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We got several web, website, YouTube

channels and podcasts that we can keep us

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ourself updated with the latest threats.

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So I'm continuing doing

that and I was doing that.

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Way before, because also some questions

on the interview could could come

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about, what is happening to our, to our

space and such, the latest breaches.

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And yeah.

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For now I'm gonna continue

that, but later on I'm gonna

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pursue and get my next search.

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Problem's gonna be the CSA plus from com.

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TIA, I guess this is the

second one I wanted to obtain.

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And from now on I will just see what is

best for my role, see what is best for me

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to take a next step and go to a level two.

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And cons, continuing the good

work, continuing, writing.

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Christophe Foulon:

That's a great approach.

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I think one of the things that you can

always do to progress in your role is

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learn more about the platforms that

you're working with on a daily basis

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and how to solve problems there and.

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Your comment about finding a certification

that would help you advance your career

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versus just the next certification.

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That's also a highly critical

aspect to, to consider.

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Great advice.

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Thank you so much for

coming on today, Rafael.

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Really appreciate hearing about

you and hearing about your journey.

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Raphael Nicolich: No, thank you.

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Thank you for, thank you so

much for the opportunity.

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Yeah, like I said, I'm honored

to be here and never thought

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that one day I'll be here.

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Yeah, thank you for the opportunity and I

hope that all the listeners was able to,

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catch something, maybe inspire them to

continue the journey because for me it was

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very hard, but at the end, it, it worth.

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Christophe Foulon: Thank you so much

and those listening, feel free to share.

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I'Ll be sharing Raphael's LinkedIn

so you can reach out to him on

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LinkedIn if you have any questions.

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And have a great day and thank you for

listening, breaking into cybersecurity.

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Raphael Nicolich: Thank you.